Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Questions and Discussions about G-Stomper
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drewinnit
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby drewinnit » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:41 pm

I tried a few apps and one let me find the files and move them to the normal location (File Manager app does this)

My issue now is how to access the normal file location from inside G Stomper. I seem to be in a root directory or emulated folder and don't know how to find the regular directory


Edir: nevermind, I'm sure the correct location will return after I move the app to sd card. At least now I can back up recent pattern sets and midi settings :)
https://soundcloud.com/fevered-shiva
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drewinnit
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby drewinnit » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:06 pm

update: I have successfully moved the Studio app to my SD card.

I have moved some of my samples to this location:
(tablet name)\Card\Android\data\com.planeth.gstomper\files\gstomper\usersamples
(i had to create \gstomper\usersamples both as new folders)


was hoping to see them appear in the app but unfortunately the User File directory is still opening in Emulated Storage, and I can't seem to find a way to the regular folders

these are the file directories I am seeing

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... dRybxECicX

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... D20bVT2vzX

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... yaJyOI1xSX

can anyone suggest how best to navigate out of this?

thanks, and sorry for the ongoing questions - hopefully someone else finds this and can solve a similar issue
https://soundcloud.com/fevered-shiva
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planet-h
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby planet-h » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:12 am

drewinnit wrote:it seems that since some point earlier in the year, my Studio saves are now going to /storage/emulated/0

That is not 100% correct... Since version 5.7.8 and on Android 8.0 or higher, G-Stomper Studio saves your work in:
"/storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.planeth.gstomper/files/gstomper"

Before that update, G-Stomper Studio saved your work in:
"/storage/emulated/0/gstomper"

It's important to know that "/storage/emulated/0" is equivalent to "/sdcard" is equivalent to what you see as internal storage when you connect your device to a PC over USB.
"/storage/emulated/0" and "/sdcard" are just symbolic links or mount points, both pointing to the same storage location.
Generally, all G-Stomper apps have saved their data based on "/storage/emulated/0/......." since the beginning of time.
It's the path what has changed from "/gstomper" to "/Android/data/com.planeth.gstomper/files/gstomper"... within the internal storage.

drewinnit wrote:I want to back up my recent Studio projects before switching the app from internal memory to SD card but I can't locate the files in android browser or via USB-PC explorer on computer. apparently the /storage/emulated/0 is just a reference to another location but even searching file names I can't see where this other location could be (in internal and SD card)

As mentioned above, all your recent G-Stomper Studio files are located at:
"/storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.planeth.gstomper/files/gstomper"
Just backup that folder and you'll have all G-Stomper Studio files safe.
Note that the path is different for other apps like G-Stomper Producer for example.

drewinnit wrote:If I go to the Save menu, this is the directory referenced: /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.planeth.gstomper/files/gstomper/patternsets

but the files I have saved here, aren't anywhere to be found.

Do you know where these files could be found? I'm scared to lose them forever but at the moment it's a price I might pay for the ease of accessing my own samples again.

Using an Android file manager, you'll find them at:
"/sdcard/Android/data/com.planeth.gstomper/files/gstomper"

When you connect your phone to your PC over USB and then use the Windows Explorer, then you'll find the files at:
"Computer/<your android device>/Internal shared storage/Android/data/com.planeth.gstomper/files/gstomper"
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planet-h
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby planet-h » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:20 am

drewinnit wrote:update: I have successfully moved the Studio app to my SD card.

I have moved some of my samples to this location:
(tablet name)\Card\Android\data\com.planeth.gstomper\files\gstomper\usersamples
(i had to create \gstomper\usersamples both as new folders)


was hoping to see them appear in the app but unfortunately the User File directory is still opening in Emulated Storage, and I can't seem to find a way to the regular folders

these are the file directories I am seeing

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... dRybxECicX

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... D20bVT2vzX

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... yaJyOI1xSX

can anyone suggest how best to navigate out of this?

Navigating out of this won't help, as this is the private isolated folder of the app, which is provided by the Android OS. If the Android OS does not accept the movement of the private isolated folders to the external card, then it is simply not possible. If you navigate out of the folder path (which is given by the Android OS; it's not the app that defines that folder path), then you won't see any files. G-Stomper can only access files in its own isolated sandbox. If you want to access files outside of this sandbox, then your only option is to use the system files picker.

I assumed and hoped that moving the app to sd card would also move the private isolated folders. But that's not the case, and therefore there is no chance to get around the system files picker.
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drewinnit
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby drewinnit » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:06 am

thanks for the info, and what a shame :( all your hard work and good design undone by the operating system

it must have been an OS update earlier in year which created this new barricaded safe spot for my files

I wonder if I can backtrack OS versions, but I also would prefer to spend that time making music rather than troubleshooting issues
https://soundcloud.com/fevered-shiva
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planet-h
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby planet-h » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:42 pm

drewinnit wrote:thanks for the info, and what a shame :( all your hard work and good design undone by the operating system

it must have been an OS update earlier in year which created this new barricaded safe spot for my files

this really undermines the enjoyment of the app as a whole. I wonder if I can backtrack OS versions, but I also would prefer to spend that time making music rather than troubleshooting issues

Just to avoid misunderstandings... It was not the OS which did that change to the app.
It is the upcoming Android Q/R versions that force developers to go the "System Files Picker" way.
The G-Stomper product line is surely one of the first app family that adopted that new behavior.
We could have of course keep the old handling until the roof is completely on fire (then when Android R hits the market next year), and then make a very last minute (usually buggy) implementation. But that's not our style, as we were and still are pioneers in many areas of Android app development (audio mostly of course). We were one of the first who came out with MIDI IN/OUT, Bluetooth MIDI, Ableton Link, and much more. And so we're also one of the first who adopt the new file system behavior. That the behavior starts with Android 8 (and not just with 10) was our decision. We went that way with Android 8 and above to have the most used Android versions at the same file system handling.

The storage handling is btw. only one point of many privacy changes in Android Q. The fact that G-Stomper now asks for accessing the fine location while scanning for Bluetooth LE MIDI device is just one example beside the storage handling.
All privacy changes in Android Q are listed here:
https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy

Sure, if you use Android 7.x or lower, you'll get the old file system handling. But with Android 7.x you'll also have not the latest tools, which means less performance, higher latency, audio quality might be lower, more drop outs, etc. etc. Therefore I'd rather recommend to go for Android 10 as soon as you can, as Google did a lot of improvements to the System Files Picker in Android Q.
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drewinnit
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby drewinnit » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:49 pm

thanks for the explanation. and I appreciate you looking forward with the development of these features so that once they're mandatory, they work smoothly

I always took the old, smooth workflow for granted! this actually pushes me back to my hardware, which I know will work without third-party interference. I'll wait and see how Android 10 handles things.
https://soundcloud.com/fevered-shiva
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planet-h
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby planet-h » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:32 am

drewinnit wrote:thanks for the explanation. and I appreciate you looking forward with the development of these features so that once they're mandatory, they work smoothly

I always took the old, smooth workflow for granted! this actually pushes me back to my hardware, which I know will work without third-party interference. I'll wait and see how Android 10 handles things.

Hardware actually works that way since ages. In other words, hardware always requires you to copy all samples to be used to its local storage. And that's what apps going to be in the future, with exception of the "System Files Picker" way of accessing files. Personally, I think this is a step back in various ways. But it also opens a lot of new doors, as accessing cloud storage has never been that easy before, and that's only one example. I'm sure that Google will do their job and improve the "System Files Picker" with the upcoming versions. It's just a shame that they didn't before, as the "System Files Picker" was initiated with the Storage Access Framework in Android 4.4, and that's years ago.
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drewinnit
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby drewinnit » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:25 am

If someone is facing the same issue as me, I'll tell you my work-around. I am using another Android app which doesn't yet have the File Picker in it, to scroll through samples quickly. I write down the name of the sample/file and its' location, and then once I have found all the sounds I want, I then go into G-Stomper and target just the folders/files I know that I need. I know it sounds terrible, but it is the most efficient method I have found and maybe it can help someone else.
https://soundcloud.com/fevered-shiva
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planet-h
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Re: Important Note about using Shared/Isolated Storage and the new File System Handling

Postby planet-h » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 am

drewinnit wrote:If someone is facing the same issue as me, I'll tell you my work-around. I am using another Android app which doesn't yet have the File Picker in it, to scroll through samples quickly. I write down the name of the sample/file and its' location, and then once I have found all the sounds I want, I then go into G-Stomper and target just the folders/files I know that I need. I know it sounds terrible, but it is the most efficient method I have found and maybe it can help someone else.

Unfortunately these apps will stop working in pretty much exact one year, then when Android 11 hits the market and enforces using the System Files Picker in all apps.
The best way is to place your samples in the private usersamples folder as explained in the docs:
https://www.planet-h.com/gstomper/docs/html/G-Stomper_UserManual_UserSamples/part4.htm

Once you've placed your samples there, you do no longer need the System Files Picker. When your samples are placed in the private usersamples folder, you can just use the G-Stomper Filebrowser and the Quick Sample Selector in the same way you did in the older Android and/or G-Stomper versions.
https://www.planet-h.com/gstomper/docs/html/G-Stomper_UserManual_DrumSampler/part10.htm

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