Screen tap feedback latency

Questions and Discussions about G-Stomper
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planet-h
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Re: Screen tap feedback latency

Postby planet-h » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:26 am

dag wrote:As mentioned in my other thread on this, this is a new (Android specific) development and not about their cross-platform Audio API.


Yes, I know. But Superpowered in general is a cross-platform API, which is not required for GSS.

dag wrote:Yes, internal latency can be quite far from real measured round-trip latency, though. As I understand it, it's really a measurement of number of buffers and their size?


Exactly.

dag wrote:Again, the point here is that they've built a completely new audio path, side-stepping the normal libraries and services, using a polling method instead of push, and achieving much lower latency regardless of device. Yes, the final latency will still depend greatly on the device, but it may well still be halved compared to before.


Yes, I know they've built a new audio path. Samsung did as well, and their solution is good. And see what happened. How many apps use it?
I won't use it unless it gets part of Android itself.

dag wrote:That's great news! I watched an I/O talk from 2016 about pro audio and didn't hear any plans that specific? They seem to mostly have been, and continuing to, fixing many small issues here and there and generally improving the results but still sticking to the same broken-at-the-core technologies that date back from the earliest days of even pre-Google Android.


Not sure which presentation you mean, but in this one they talk about their pro audio sdk.
They don't give out any release date yet, but they clearly work on it, so far together with with Samsung.
That it'll be part of Android 8.0 is just a guess, no more. But I'm pretty sure it will be part of it, since they really have to come out with something soon, otherwise they'll be out of the race.

dag
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Re: Screen tap feedback latency

Postby dag » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:01 am

Yep, that's the talk I watched. Maybe I missed the bit where they mentioned that.

Also, sorry if it seemed I was saying you should rewrite G-Stomper to use Superpowered. I don't mean that. It's just interesting to read about, and ponder what it might mean for the future of Android pro audio. Their core claim seems to be that switching to a pull mechanism from the current push mechanism in the media server is critical for achieving competitive latency, and they back it up with a reference implementation. I agree it's unlikely their implementation, at least under their third-party stewardship, will be meaningful for any real-world use cases and apps for the same reasons Samsung's solution isn't really used outside Samsung's own apps. But perhaps it stands to show what a rewrite of the existing core Android infrastructure would make possible, that isn't possible as long as they're sticking to the designs that back to the beginnings of Android.

So, yeah, just speculating out of curiosity.

(I still think you're missing some of the point here though: this media server is specifically for Android, it's not part of their cross-platform efforts at all. It's their Android media server, not their media server "now with Android support". As far as I know they don't have any other media server. It's not an alternative API to talk to the existing OS services; it's a replacement for those very services on Android. But, no matter.)
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planet-h
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Re: Screen tap feedback latency

Postby planet-h » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:36 am

dag wrote:Yep, that's the talk I watched. Maybe I missed the bit where they mentioned that.

Also, sorry if it seemed I was saying you should rewrite G-Stomper to use Superpowered. I don't mean that. It's just interesting to read about, and ponder what it might mean for the future of Android pro audio. Their core claim seems to be that switching to a pull mechanism from the current push mechanism in the media server is critical for achieving competitive latency, and they back it up with a reference implementation. I agree it's unlikely their implementation, at least under their third-party stewardship, will be meaningful for any real-world use cases and apps for the same reasons Samsung's solution isn't really used outside Samsung's own apps. But perhaps it stands to show what a rewrite of the existing core Android infrastructure would make possible, that isn't possible as long as they're sticking to the designs that back to the beginnings of Android.

So, yeah, just speculating out of curiosity.

(I still think you're missing some of the point here though: this media server is specifically for Android, it's not part of their cross-platform efforts at all. It's their Android media server, not their media server "now with Android support". As far as I know they don't have any other media server. It's not an alternative API to talk to the existing OS services; it's a replacement for those very services on Android. But, no matter.)


No problem at all, I'm really enjoying our discussion;)
As already mentioned in the Multi-Device MIDI Thread, G-Stomper is built and managed by one single person, that's why I simply have to decide where to put effort.
Since Superpowered didn't fit my needs for GSS, and since the pricing model was not transparent, I simply kicked it out of the evaluation (for now). And that's why I don't spend a lot of time anymore with following their development. It's like in a float diagram... if the first conditions are not met, there's practically no need to check the following conditions ;).

But that doesn't mean that I do not agree with such a solution. The benefit is absolutely clear, I'm just waiting for it to be part of Android.
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planet-h
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Re: Screen tap feedback latency

Postby planet-h » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:31 am

Here's the latest video from the Samsung developer conference. I'd say it's pretty sure that the Samsung Real-Time Audio API will be the official solution in the future. Version 3.1 will work on non Samsung devices, and since they work very close with Google together these days, I'm pretty sure that Google will integrate this solution in upcomping Android releases.

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