Akai APC 25 Key

Questions and Discussions about G-Stomper
whatnot
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:05 am

Akai APC 25 Key

Postby whatnot » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:29 am

Hi friends,

Have two questions about the controller:

1. Can I map the 40 pads to the patterns in the Pattern Set. I enabled Program Change in the Settings but it won't help(

2. On Akai forum I read that the model does not support changing the default midi channel. Could you please explain what is it that I can not do having this restriction?

Thanx a lot!

Alex
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby planet-h » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:53 pm

Welcome to the forum, whatnot.
And thanks for your message.

whatnot wrote:1. Can I map the 40 pads to the patterns in the Pattern Set. I enabled Program Change in the Settings but it won't help(

If your pads can send MIDI Program Change events (0..63), then yes.
The 64 Pattern slots in the G-Stomper Pattern Set have a fixed MIDI mapping to program change 0-63.

More details here.
(chapter 22.4.8.1)

whatnot wrote:2. On Akai forum I read that the model does not support changing the default midi channel. Could you please explain what is it that I can not do having this restriction?

You mean what a MIDI channel is?
Please see here: https://www.noterepeat.com/articles/how-to/213-midi-basics-common-terms-explained

The only restriction you have with a fixed MIDI channel is that you can control only one mapping group in G-Stomper at once, either the global midi channel, or the sampler tracks, or the synth, but not all at once. This is because the different modules are mapped through different midi channels. If you only have one channel, the you can only control one channel.
whatnot
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:05 am

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby whatnot » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Thanx a lot!)
planet-h wrote:If your pads can send MIDI Program Change events (0..63), then yes.
The 64 Pattern slots in the G-Stomper Pattern Set have a fixed MIDI mapping to program change 0-63.


How can I learn if it can or not?
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby planet-h » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:56 am

whatnot wrote:Thanx a lot!)
planet-h wrote:If your pads can send MIDI Program Change events (0..63), then yes.
The 64 Pattern slots in the G-Stomper Pattern Set have a fixed MIDI mapping to program change 0-63.


How can I learn if it can or not?

I just checked the APC 25 Key's user manual.
As this controller is designed to control Ableton, it seems that it cannot send program changes on the pads.
Actually it cannot even change the behavior of the pads to anything else than its default.

A typical MIDI controller like the AKAI MPK225 for example can send any types of messages from its drum pads (also program changes).

Sorry for not having better news.
whatnot
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:05 am

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby whatnot » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:45 am

Thanx a million
I wanted to know for sure
Just the last one:
- what are the controllers best suited for android apps
I believe the mentioned Akai Mini is one of them?
What are other types.
Thanx in advance
Alex
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby planet-h » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:22 pm

You're welcome, Alex:).
whatnot wrote:Thanx a million
I wanted to know for sure
Just the last one:
- what are the controllers best suited for android apps
I believe the mentioned Akai Mini is one of them?
What are other types.
Thanx in advance
Alex

The problem with the mini versions of the AKAI controllers is that they all have restrictions in MIDI channel selections, pads behavior or similar.
Therefore the bigger controllers are in most cases the better choice.
The AKAI MPK225 for example has a low power mode and also the ability to use an external power supply.
The AKAI MPK MINI does not have these features.
Same applies to the AKAI pad controllers.

They have many variations, such with more pads and less keys, such with larger keyboards, such with pads only.
The rule is always the same. The bigger AKAI models are (against expectations) better for usage with mobile devices.
whatnot
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:05 am

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby whatnot » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:28 pm

Thanx for the help!
Folkdisco
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby Folkdisco » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:21 am

I had a good look at the Akai APC 25, before going a different way (worlde easycontrol.9).
It's hard to argue with the number of buttons for the price. But there are important things to consider. I think some controllers save setup on the controller, and some save it on the computer. If you are plugging into a tablet or phone, you just need it to output the right data. Without delving into the manual again, it was designed specifically for Ableton, and I am not sure if it can be configured for other programs. Not saying it can't, I don't know.

Also, the APC 25 has lots of LEDs. You look at the power requirements in the manuals of different controllers, it's all a bit wooly. Stuff like "under 100ma". I think for one of these, you probably need a powered USB hub or wire, and a little power bank, because your tablet or phone will be pushed, and that's a bit too much drain off your phone battery.

To the developer, I know it makes sense logically to change patterns with Program Change. But this *seriously* limits the available controllers. Yes, it is possible to buy larger, more expensive controllers, but that completely defeats the point of low cost apps and small, portable form factors. Is there any chance of an option to change patterns with note or CC midi? That way, 100% of controllers and all midi keyboards would immediately be compatible. Any controller I use has to physically velcro onto the top of a guitar, so that kind of limits the options! ;-)
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1017
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby planet-h » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:45 am

Folkdisco wrote:I had a good look at the Akai APC 25, before going a different way (worlde easycontrol.9).
It's hard to argue with the number of buttons for the price. But there are important things to consider. I think some controllers save setup on the controller, and some save it on the computer. If you are plugging into a tablet or phone, you just need it to output the right data. Without delving into the manual again, it was designed specifically for Ableton, and I am not sure if it can be configured for other programs. Not saying it can't, I don't know.

Also, the APC 25 has lots of LEDs. You look at the power requirements in the manuals of different controllers, it's all a bit wooly. Stuff like "under 100ma". I think for one of these, you probably need a powered USB hub or wire, and a little power bank, because your tablet or phone will be pushed, and that's a bit too much drain off your phone battery.

Generally I think the APC 25 is not ideal to use with a mobile.
First, because it really seems that it requires quite a lot of electric power, but even more because its obviously designed for Ableton.
The problem with such controllers is (as you said) that they have a predefined mapping, which can in most cases either not be changed or if it can be changed, then only with a tedious procedure.
Manufacturers of such controllers often do not provide easy to use tools for (in this case) Ableton controllers, as they are supposed to be used with Ableton.
So for general use (also for mobile), a generic controller (not designed for a specific product) is in most cases the better choice.

Folkdisco wrote:To the developer, I know it makes sense logically to change patterns with Program Change. But this *seriously* limits the available controllers. Yes, it is possible to buy larger, more expensive controllers, but that completely defeats the point of low cost apps and small, portable form factors. Is there any chance of an option to change patterns with note or CC midi? That way, 100% of controllers and all midi keyboards would immediately be compatible. Any controller I use has to physically velcro onto the top of a guitar, so that kind of limits the options! ;-)

The short answer is: Yes, there's a good chance to get CC and Note Mappings for the pattern set (slots).

The current setup was implemented at a different time, when not that many users made use of MIDI at all on Android.
I absolutely understand your point, and fully agree. Changing patterns by Note or CC makes absolutely sense.
In the last few months, a lot of really cool portable controllers have hit the market. The Livid Minim and the AKAI LPD8 Wireless are just two examples... there are a lot more. Many of them only support CC or even only Note events.
Therefore it is the right time for that change.

So basically this would mean for the pattern set:
Pattern Slots (one cc mapping for all) : CC-XXX : value 0..63
Pattern Slots (one cc mapping for each) : CC-XXX: value 127
Pattern Slots (one key mapping for each) : Note

I thinks also handy would be key (Note) mappings for PLAY, STOP, RECORD, R-ARP ON/OFF, STUTTER ON/OFF, LOOP ON/OFF.

Would that fit your needs?
Folkdisco
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Akai APC 25 Key

Postby Folkdisco » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:46 pm

Yes! Yes! Yes! Exactly that!
I think PRG 0-63 covers it.
CC xx 0-63 covers it.
With notes, I could imagine someone using the left or right portion of a keyboard to select patterns, and the rest of the keyboard to play notes.
So *maybe* if you assign top and bottom notes, then these could be assigned to pattern A1 up to wherever the top note is OR pattern A1+63 maximum.
If there are separate mappings for each pattern, fine, no problem whatsoever.
All the other mappings, yes brilliant stuff.

Also if pattern and play control notes are prevented from going through to play notes on the synth or sampler, that might be peachy!

But basically...
Yes! Yes! Exactly that! :-D

Whatnot,
On powering midi controllers. Little power banks are cheap. You can get 1200mah for £1 here. USB power splitter cables and hubs are cheap on ebay. Obviously, it's ideal if you can just plug your controller in, but I don't *think* power is a problem. Tedious setting up once is OK. If it physically isn't doable on that controller, that's a biggie! I think you have to look at the pdf manual for the APC 25, and online, and see what is possible. Ableton don't even publish a lot of their midi spec, which doesn't help. At worst case scenario, it seems that you might soon be able to control patterns via midi note.
:-D :-D :-D

Return to “General Questions and Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: qpluskequals and 0 guests