Volume

Questions and Discussions about G-Stomper
lonbluster
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:28 pm

Volume

Postby lonbluster » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Hi,
I tried to raise the volume in many ways:
-sample properties
-master
-fx (big increase!)
-plugging the phone on a guitar amplifier

It can get pretty loud, for sure, but..
I got quite different results, but to have a balanced harmony sound I need keep the volume of the samples quite lower and lower, so when I have no speakers I can't hear very well on full Android volume. Anyway also with a guitar amplifier to the max sometimes I want more.

What do you use as audio output ? always 3.5mm or also usb ? Always better with amplifier, or special amplified speakers?
Does a mixer help, any suggestion for Ableton link enabled mixer?

This is really an adventure, thanks for being here for G-stumper! :ugeek: 8-) 8-)
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planet-h
Posts: 1227
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Volume

Postby planet-h » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:57 am

I have moved the topic to general questions, as this is what it actually is.

lonbluster wrote:I tried to raise the volume in many ways:
-sample properties
-master

Don't forget the mixer channels.
Just keep in mind that if you raise all volumes to 100%, you'll run into a lot of clipping for sure.
It's normal that you run into clipping if you mix multiple sounds together that are all at 100% already,
You can use a limiter in the master fx, but also this will destroy your mix, if you overdo it.

Always keep an eye on the VU meters. If they hit the top, then you're clearly too loud.

Just out of curiosity... did you also raise the media volume of your device? I mean on the phone, outside G-Stomper?

lonbluster wrote:-fx (big increase!)

This is a very bad idea, and you'll surely run into clipping.

lonbluster wrote:-plugging the phone on a guitar amplifier

Guitar amps are optimized for guitar sound, and I have my doubts that you'll get any good quality out of it.

lonbluster wrote:It can get pretty loud, for sure, but..
I got quite different results, but to have a balanced harmony sound I need keep the volume of the samples quite lower and lower, so when I have no speakers I can't hear very well on full Android volume. Anyway also with a guitar amplifier to the max sometimes I want more.

What do you use as audio output ? always 3.5mm or also usb ? Always better with amplifier, or special amplified speakers?

If you want some quality output, and you don't want to spend hundreds of $ for good monitor speakers, then some quality headphones are your best option, e.g. Sennheiser or similar.

lonbluster wrote:Does a mixer help, any suggestion for Ableton link enabled mixer?

Sorry, but I never heard about something like that.
How would it help to have an external Mixer that is Ableton Link enabled?
Note that Ableton Link can only synchronize the timing. It cannot transmit any audio data.
lonbluster
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Volume

Postby lonbluster » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:36 pm

Clipping happens only if i edit some steps...so far.

In what case you discourage Fx ? That is really amplifying the volume!
lonbluster
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Volume

Postby lonbluster » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38 pm

Yes also the Mixer and Equalizer help.
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planet-h
Posts: 1227
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Volume

Postby planet-h » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:18 pm

lonbluster wrote:In what case you discourage Fx ? That is really amplifying the volume!

I do not recommend to use FX to increase the volume because that is not what FX are meant for.
If you use the Stereo Tool for example, and then raise the volume to 200%, then all you produce is clipping.
Of course it sounds louder, but you loose the quality.
Also... of course there are exceptions, and it's correct that you can do slight level adjustments using the Stereo Tool FX.
Furthermore, there are particular effects that are thought to increase the felt loudness, e.g. Compressors or Limiters. Those work well of course, but for the price of loosing dynamics.

lonbluster wrote:Yes also the Mixer and Equalizer help.

If you just raise the output volume to 200%, then all you produce is clipping.
The level at the end of the EQ is meant for the case when the EQ either reduces or increases the output volume. The output slider can then be used to adjust the output level, so that the volume in the mix remains the same.

However, at the end, it's up to you.
You're of course free to use even a Distortion to increase the volume.
If you're happy with the result, then everything is fine.
I'm just saying that this is not the correct way, and at some point in your production cycle (usually then when the track is almost complete), you'll pay the bill.. then when you realize that the mix is already messed too much.

My recommendation:
Always keep an eye on the VU meters. If one single channel hits the top, then it is too loud and will therefore probably destroy the mix.
If you need it louder, but without clipping, then you should adjust the volume after the signal left your Android device... most likely at your amplifier.
As output connection, your best option is to use the headphone jack. Depending on the Android version, there might be good USB options as well.

Again, did you already try to increase just the media volume of your device by just using the hardware volume up button of your device?
lonbluster
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Volume

Postby lonbluster » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:54 pm

I wonder why you doubt that, I did raise the phone, the guitar amplifier/speaker to the max. OF COURSE was the first thing to check...

sure the android volume protection is annoying... is that convincing?
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planet-h
Posts: 1227
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Re: Volume

Postby planet-h » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:04 pm

lonbluster wrote:I wonder why you doubt that, I did raise the phone, the guitar amplifier/speaker to the max. OF COURSE was the first thing to check...

I did not doubt, I did just ask ... because you didn't list it in the things you already tried ;)
lonbluster
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Volume

Postby lonbluster » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:04 pm

So to recap what order to avoid clipping?:

-hardware volume
-android media volume
-Master
-Mixer
-sample Gain
-sample Fx
-sample Eq
-sample Fx1

any better order?
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planet-h
Posts: 1227
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Volume

Postby planet-h » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:09 pm

lonbluster wrote:So to recap what order to avoid clipping?:

-hardware volume
-android media volume
-Master
-Mixer
-sample Gain
-sample Fx
-sample Eq
-sample Fx1

any better order?

Is that order mean as prioritization of what is the best choice?
If so, then yes, that looks pretty good.
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planet-h
Posts: 1227
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Volume

Postby planet-h » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 pm

lonbluster wrote:So to recap what order to avoid clipping?

There are exceptions of course.
Using a limiter or a compressor in the SumFX or using the Master EQ to boost some frequency parts is surely recommended, as long as you do not overdo it.

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