Sfz Import

Questions and Discussions about the G-Stomper VA-Beast Synthesizer
ugurbecerik
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:37 am

Sfz Import

Postby ugurbecerik » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:50 am

Hi there, i used some of sfz libraries in va beast and found some problems.
1- What is the memory limit for sfz files, my device has 6gb of ram(note 8) but get memory error for 1gb library for example
2- Sfz imported salamender piano library has some cracles while playing but your preset version doesnt have problems. What is the difference between imported sfz and preset versions. I want to use my sfz libraries here and play them via midi.

I love gstomper and want to use it more if i can solve this little problems. Have a nice day.
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby planet-h » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:48 pm

Welcome to the forum, ugurbecerik
And thanks for your message.

ugurbecerik wrote:Hi there, i used some of sfz libraries in va beast and found some problems.
1- What is the memory limit for sfz files, my device has 6gb of ram(note 8) but get memory error for 1gb library for example
2- Sfz imported salamender piano library has some cracles while playing but your preset version doesnt have problems. What is the difference between imported sfz and preset versions. I want to use my sfz libraries here and play them via midi.

I love gstomper and want to use it more if i can solve this little problems. Have a nice day.

1 - The memory limit is per app, and is given by the underlying Android operating system. You can only change it by rooting your device.
Modern devises usually have 512mb per app. Some devices have less, e.g. 256mb.
You can check the value of your device in the info tab of the setup dialog (Main Screen / SETUP / INFO / Memory Class).
So it's pretty clear that that a 1gb multi sample won't load.

2 - The original salamander grand sfz is way too large to be used in a mobile environment.
It has 15 velocity layers and a total size of 1.1gb.
That's why I've created a reduced version of it with 3 velocity layers. Also I threw out all the hammer, release and pedal noise to get the size down to 176mb.
And yes, it's correct that there have been minor issues with the original sfz.
I don't remember where exactly the issues have been, in what note range I mean.
But the problems have been fixed in the add on pack preset.
There was also a slight re-tuning required for some of the notes.

Generally you can just save the imported sfz as VA-Beast presets, once you've loaded them.
The audible result is the same, presets are just easier to access.
If you want to avoid large preset files, you can turn of the sample embedding for all G-Stomper files in : Main Screen / SETUP / GEN / Default file format = Linked format
This will stop G-Stomper from embedding samples in all its file types, and makes especially sense if you have multiple presets that are based on the same samples.
Just keep in mind that in this case, the original samples must remain on the system, otherwise the "linking" (not embedding) presets cannot find them anymore.

Embedded presets on the other hand have the benefit that once saved, the complete preset is a self-contained file, and the original samples can be deleted from the device.

Hope that answers your questions.
Folkdisco
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby Folkdisco » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:44 pm

I had written this to add on to the midi import request, but it makes more sense here.
I do love the SFZ import. Most soundfonts are sf2, not sfz, and you get little things like dual mono samples, so you usually have to play around with them a bit first.
But it just works brilliantly, all the key mappings sorted. Bingo! It's ridiculously nice to mess around with those Beast filters on real world instrument samples. On your mobile phone! Bonkers! :-D
I made my own cut down Salamander from a sf2 at about 20MB. Had to auto change the dual mono samples to stereo ones and convert it to sfz. I'm not a piano fidelity obsessive, but it sounds really sweet to me, a lot better than the included piano. I haven't tried the Salamander free app yet, because I probably need to load and start songs quickly, and I think that would probably take a while to load into memory every time you change songs. I presume yours is nicer, but everything is a compromise. And yes, if you use big user sampled synth sounds, use link in the song save. Otherwise the song saves get really big, really fast, and I save consecutively numbered backups pretty often due to paranoia and previous traumatic life experiences! ;-)
ugurbecerik
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Sfz Import

Postby ugurbecerik » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am

Thank youfor your reply.
While hacking the sfz usage in va beast, i noticed that ampeg_release and sustain parameters are passed to the synth. What other sfz parameters are allowed in va beast?
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby planet-h » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:02 am

ugurbecerik wrote:Thank youfor your reply.
While hacking the sfz usage in va beast, i noticed that ampeg_release and sustain parameters are passed to the synth. What other sfz parameters are allowed in va beast?

Per Preset:
ampeg_attack
ampeg_decay
ampeg_sustain
ampeg_release

Per Sample:
lovel
hivel
loop_mode : no_loop, one_shot, loop_continuous, loop_sustain
lokey
hikey
pitch_keycenter
tune
pan

That's it for now.
If there's any special parameter you'd like to be supported, just let me know.
I cannot give you a promise to actually include it/them, but I'll surely consider what's possible.
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby planet-h » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:08 am

Folkdisco wrote:I had written this to add on to the midi import request, but it makes more sense here.
I do love the SFZ import. Most soundfonts are sf2, not sfz, and you get little things like dual mono samples, so you usually have to play around with them a bit first.
But it just works brilliantly, all the key mappings sorted. Bingo! It's ridiculously nice to mess around with those Beast filters on real world instrument samples. On your mobile phone! Bonkers! :-D
I made my own cut down Salamander from a sf2 at about 20MB. Had to auto change the dual mono samples to stereo ones and convert it to sfz. I'm not a piano fidelity obsessive, but it sounds really sweet to me, a lot better than the included piano. I haven't tried the Salamander free app yet, because I probably need to load and start songs quickly, and I think that would probably take a while to load into memory every time you change songs. I presume yours is nicer, but everything is a compromise. And yes, if you use big user sampled synth sounds, use link in the song save. Otherwise the song saves get really big, really fast, and I save consecutively numbered backups pretty often due to paranoia and previous traumatic life experiences! ;-)

Yes, that's correct, many sounds are in sf2.
You already brought it to the point.
The reason why G-Stomper does not support sf2 is the lack of "real" stereo support.
Of course that might change at some point in the future, but for now, it's not planned.

Regarding the big files:
Would it help to add a new setting, so that you could enable to navigate out of the Patterns|Pattern Sets|Sound Sets|VA-Beast Presets folders and save your files wherever you're up to (e.g. on the external sd card)?
Folkdisco
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby Folkdisco » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:57 pm

Don't know about others, but it really isn't a problem for me. I move the old song files to an 'old versions' folder, which you can move to external easy enough. Song files with linked samples are only about 2MB.
On import of sf2, I was initially "NO SF2? WHAT? EVERYTHING'S IN SF2!". But when you get into it, you find the dual mono files, and sometimes the dual mono WAVs have different lengths and loop points! And stereo samples definitely do sound much nicer! :-)
So it's often a bit more complicated than auto converting the monos to stereos. Also, both sf2 and sfz can have stacked samples, and the Beast seems to play one sample out of a stacked set, or one side of the stereo pair of mono files, which again, isn't a problem, but you need to be aware of it.
Also, I like the samples to be in a separate sub folder, for tidiness, so I open the SFZ in a text editor, and replace all the file= statements with file=Samples/.
So I started out thinking I wanted to request sf2 import, but with the above issues, you often have to mess with the things first, so that work is A LOT better done on a laptop than in GSS.
I think the import works great. Personally I have no problem auto editing the things to sfz, and then importing those. Creating a sf2 import is going to be really complicated, and need lots of user options, or is just going to work on mono files. I think soundfont import is a bit messy and complicated, probably geek and/or obsessive behaviour! So maybe a user upload sound database would be better solution, so obsessive geeks could share things they have created or converted, for the less obsessive users to play with. Obviously, they would need to confirm that they're using public domain samples and soundfonts.
If any users are interested in doing this stuff, I ought to point you in the direction of sfzed (freeware), or sf2 dual mono to stereo auto conversion.
Folkdisco
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby Folkdisco » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:19 pm

Actually, if there's one thing, it would be the ability to import SFZs into oscillator 2! Something I discovered is if you have a complex and percussive piano thing on OSC1 and something different like a clear sounding triangle on OSC2, and sweep between them with the OSC mixer, it can just be a wonderful thing. I could imagine sweeping between a mute guitar and guitar harmonics on an arpeggio. Obviously, no problems if this never appears! :-D
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby planet-h » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:38 pm

Folkdisco wrote:Actually, if there's one thing, it would be the ability to import SFZs into oscillator 2! Something I discovered is if you have a complex and percussive piano thing on OSC1 and something different like a clear sounding triangle on OSC2, and sweep between them with the OSC mixer, it can just be a wonderful thing. I could imagine sweeping between a mute guitar and guitar harmonics on an arpeggio. Obviously, no problems if this never appears! :-D

Honestly, I'm missing that feature, too.
What about a simple push button to swap the main oscillator content between osc1 and osc2?
That would cover it, wouldn't it?
User avatar
planet-h
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Sfz Import

Postby planet-h » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:43 pm

Folkdisco wrote: Creating a sf2 import is going to be really complicated, and need lots of user options, or is just going to work on mono files. I think soundfont import is a bit messy and complicated, probably geek and/or obsessive behaviour! So maybe a user upload sound database would be better solution, so obsessive geeks could share things they have created or converted, for the less obsessive users to play with. Obviously, they would need to confirm that they're using public domain samples and soundfonts.
If any users are interested in doing this stuff, I ought to point you in the direction of sfzed (freeware), or sf2 dual mono to stereo auto conversion.

I had that in mind since a while. The only thing that holds me off is the copyright nightmare.
At the end, whatever policy you let to the uploaders confirm, responsible is the person who hosts the files.
Soundcloud for example has loads of such problems.
But generally, yes that would be a very useful thing, not only for sounds, also for patterns, songs or whatever.

Return to “G-Stomper VA-Beast Questions and Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests