Inter-Loop Pan Switch

[Aquasheep]

Hey, I'm still pretty new to gstomper. Loving it so far, but I'm wondering if there is a better way than live recording automation in song mode to slowly reverse the pan of a track over the course of four loops of a particular pattern. I see the stepwise edit mode and like that option, but it doesn't appear to work between iterations of a pattern (ie it resets when the pattern is played again). I noticed the FX continue through multiple iterations of the same pattern and have LFO's on them, but basically I'd like to steadily swap the pans of two tracks similar to how an envelope would do it, without having to make copies of my pattern because then I'm not sure how to keep the other LFO's I have in place continuous. I tried live recording in song mode, but I wasn't very steady with the faders.

[planet-h]

Welcome to the forum, Aquasheep.

Hey, I'm still pretty new to gstomper. Loving it so far, but I'm wondering if there is a better way than live recording automation in song mode to slowly reverse the pan of a track over the course of four loops of a particular pattern. I see the stepwise edit mode and like that option, but it doesn't appear to work between iterations of a pattern (ie it resets when the pattern is played again). I noticed the FX continue through multiple iterations of the same pattern and have LFO's on them, but basically I'd like to steadily swap the pans of two tracks similar to how an envelope would do it, without having to make copies of my pattern because then I'm not sure how to keep the other LFO's I have in place continuous. I tried live recording in song mode, but I wasn't very steady with the faders.

As long as you loop within the same pattern (without having multiple copies), the only way to generate a steady pan over multiple iterations is to use the Auto Panner Effect. As you already know for sure, the Auto Panner uses an LFO, which is not bound to the pattern sequence.
The automations on the other hand are always bound to the pattern sequence (there's nothing like a song sequence on top of it).
The only way to achieve what you're looking for with an automation, is to copy your pattern multiple times and then automate either by live recording or (the in my opinion better way) use the step edit / Auto-Complete automation approach. See http://www.planet-h.com/gstomper/docs/G-Stomper_UserManual_ParameterAutomation.htm#_Toc423435061

The reason why there's no song sequence on top of the patterns in song mode is simple:
Since GSS is designed for live usage, even in song mode, you can always interact in many ways with the arrangement, so even in song mode, the sequencer has never the complete control over the timeline. You can manually switch patterns for example, then let the song sequencer take over the control again.
However, therefore the automations are always bound to the patterns.

May I ask, how long should that pan swap be in bars? Did you already the length of the pattern up to 8 bars?

[Aquasheep]

Thanks for the prompt and thoughtful response. The pattern is currently four bars, so it does make sense to double it up to 8. I'm only looking for 16 bars total, so it sounds like the best way would be to step-edit my pan through two 8-bar iterations (Auto Panner sounds great, but my FX slots are all occupied because I have the beat FX chain and the melody FX on the same pattern because as far as I know you can only run one pattern at a time with up to three FX slots per pattern) and match the end of my first melody's FX LFO with the beginning of the melody in a new, second copy of the 8-bar pattern. How does that match up to your vision of my options?

[planet-h]

You're welcome:).

And yes, that is exactly what I meant.
If you're going with two 8-bar patterns, then it's very easy to achieve.

1. Select the track you want to pan
2. Enable step edit and select step 1 on bar 1
3. Move the pan slider to -100 (full left)
4. Now select step 16 on bar 8
5. Move the pan slider to +100 (full right)
6. Disable step edit
7. Finally long press the selected Track T[..], then select the AUTO tab in the menu and choose "Auto-Complete Automation". This will connect the two key steps with a perfect smooth movement

On the other pattern do the same, but the other way;)
(you can have as many key steps you want, auto-complete just connects them with all the free space in between)

[planet-h]

You can of course do the same on the note grid, poly grid or on the mixer screen. On the mixer, the function is located in the automation menu on top.

[Aquasheep]

Wow, that's super easy, thanks. So, I did that and ran it without any changes to the FX LFO, and it sounds like both pan and FX just continue smoothly for the 16 bars. Maybe this is dumb, but why don't the FX restart when the pattern changes to the copied pattern? I assumed later FX even if the same as preceding instances would override the earlier ones by putting themselves on top of the stack, but it ain't Magic cards, so I have no idea how it actually works.

[planet-h]

Maybe this is dumb, but why don't the FX restart when the pattern changes to the copied pattern? I assumed later FX even if the same as preceding instances would override the earlier ones by putting themselves on top of the stack, but it ain't Magic cards, so I have no idea how it actually works.

The LFOs in general have a special behavior. Since it's possible to set their frequency to very low values (let's say 16bars or even longer if not synced), it must be possible to let them run over the pattern boundaries (in the case when no new fx type is loaded in the new pattern). Generally LFOs are not bound to the sequence, these are running in their own timing. LFOs are pretty much the same as the regular oscillators of the VA-Beast Synth, these are just running at lower frequencies.

The automations on the other hand are regular sequnences, which are bound to the patterns in the same way as triggers and notes are.

[Aquasheep]

Ok, turns out pan is definitely not working. I followed your instructions initially setting the first step on the first pattern first beat and the last step on the second pattern last beat. Realizing that probably doesn't work for pan like it seems to with FX, I put the pan final position on the last step of bar eight of the first pattern, following your steps. But, it just doesn't change anything until the very last beat and then does it all at once. In other words the auto-complete appears to change nothing. I tried this on the sequencer view which was a little non-obvious, so then I tried the mixer view and that definitely registered both steps with no change in between. What am I doing wrong?

Edit: Just saw your LFO explanation. Thanks for that. So basically whichever LFO came first and is still running has precedence and will continue on that track as long as the same FX have been copied to subsequent patterns on that track?

[planet-h]

Ok, turns out pan is definitely not working. I followed your instructions initially setting the first step on the first pattern first beat and the last step on the second pattern last beat.

Oh, OK.
That makes absolutely sense;).

1. Select the track you want to pan
2. Enable step edit and select step 1 on bar 1
3. Move the pan slider to -100 (full left)
4. Now select step 16 on bar 8
5. Move the pan slider to +100 (full right)
6. Disable step edit
7. Finally long press the selected Track T[..], then select the AUTO tab in the menu and choose "Auto-Complete Automation". This will connect the two key steps with a perfect smooth movement

The steps listed above must be in the same pattern. It's not possible to autocomplete the automations over pattern boundaries.
If you want to move from -100 to +100 over 16bars (two 8bar patterns), then you have to create key steps for -100 and 0(center) in pattern 1 and autocomplete, and you have to create key steps for 0(center) and +100 in pattern 2 and autocomplete there, too.

To be able to autocomplete automations, at least 2 key steps are required within the same pattern.

[planet-h]

So basically whichever LFO came first and is still running has precedence and will continue on that track as long as the same FX have been copied to subsequent patterns on that track?

Yes, exactly.
This applies for the Track LFOs of the samplers as well as for the FX and SUM FX LFOs.
In case of the FX and SUM FX, it's not only the case if the FX type doesn't change.
The LFO keeps running as long as it stays unchanged in its tempo, so when you have the LFO applied on a LP12 filter in pattern 1, and the same LFO applied to a MOOG LP filter in pattern 2, then it'll also keep running.
The LFOs of the VA-Beast synth are slightly different, since they depend on the KB Sync and MONO settings of the particular synth patch.